Lighting for large maps

[Malaiseous]

I am making a rats style map but when I create a light environment outside to shine through the window - the resulting light isn't enough to illuminate the room. I have tried changing the brightness but this doesn't help either.

Would I put more than one light environment entity outside? or is there something else I'm missing?

I will have to rely on interior lighting for rat tunnels, vents etc but I mostly wanted to rely on the light from the window to illuminate the majority of it. Any thoughts would be most welcome.

[Duck]

when you compile do you use HDR? i believe this makes your map look darker, as you see in my day of defeat source map, i put some screenshots in it, it shows you when i compiled with HDR, it was dark, do not use HDR to compile if you want your map to look lighter

however you would not have to use another light_environment its only qualified to use only one, if you are making a 3-D skybox, you would need 2, one in the regular area and one in the 3-D skybox

you might also need to rely on more lighting, use a light entity, thats all it is called is light, use it, and if you want to, you could let me view your map and give you some tips on your entities used.

depeding on your area, you would need to use a light entity in a few areas, like if you have a 1,024 x 1,024 x 1,024 unit size you would probably need to use at least 4 to 8 light entities.

now if you was to use a skybox tool texture, you need a light_environment a closed end area, without a skybox, you do not need a light_environment only light entities.

also make sure your map does not leak any, to find out if it does, look into the compile console if it says anything like: "***LEAKED***" then you have a leak...of course, you would be able to find your leak by loading the pointfile by going to the toolbars (ex.- File, Edit, Map, etc) go to Map then Load Pointfile, this loads up a pointfile that tells you where your leak is, usually showing you a red line from the beginning of the leaked entity to the end point where it leaks out the world, you must have your map completely closed in, do not use transparent colors like glass, or see through textures and dont close a map off with an entity either...of course that would be hard to do, i guess >.>

anyways this i hope helped, if any questions let me know and i will go further to help

thanx~
Duck

[Malaiseous]

Thank you very much for the time and input. This is my first serious attempt at creating a map and the help is very much appreciated.

No I havent compiled with HDR yet but I checked for a leak and yes there was a slight crack in the edge of the ceiling of the map, but after fixing that the problem still persists. Not enough light. No where near enough.

Are you able to tell anything from the following data? If not don't worry. I'm just slowly but surely losing faith in the map. I created some giant DVD brushes but they don't appear in the map when playing. Would this have something to do with the textures I'm using(jpgs of dvd covers)? Also, how do you make the brushes movable like props? Cos I want the option to be able to topple the DVDs. I am such a noob at this but really wanting to learn.

Lastly, how am I meant to show you my map? A screenshot or do you want the file? I have to warn you, the textures I'm using are pretty awful at the moment. I'm using sand as the wall etc etc and I'm only still building the giant furniture, not yet even onto rat tunnels yet.

Thanks again!

Malaiseous

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk\bin\vbsp.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\cstrike" "C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta"

Valve Software - vbsp.exe (Aug 4 2006)
1 threads
materialPath: c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\cstrike\materials
Loading C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.vmf
fixing up env_cubemap materials on brush sides...
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
ProcessBlock_Thread: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (0)
Processing areas...done (0)
Building Faces...done (0)
FixTjuncs...
PruneNodes...
WriteBSP...
done (0)
writing C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.prt...done (1)
Creating default cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/sky_dust_hdr*.vmt
Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.

Creating default HDR cubemaps for env_cubemap using skybox materials:
skybox/sky_dust_hdr*.vmt
Run buildcubemaps in the engine to get the correct cube maps.

Finding displacement neighbors...
Finding lightmap sample positions...
Displacement Alpha : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Building Physics collision data...
done (0) (183896 bytes)
Placing detail props : 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Compacting texture/material tables...
Reduced 512 texinfos to 332
Reduced 76 texdatas to 74 (1690 bytes to 1617)
Writing C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.bsp
7 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk\bin\vvis.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\cstrike" "C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta"

Valve Software - vvis.exe (May 22 2006)
1 threads
reading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.bsp
reading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.prt
1276 portalclusters
4360 numportals
Leaf 311 (portal 1422) with too many portals. Use vbsp -glview to compile, then glview -portal -portalhighlight X or -leafhighlight L to view the problem.

** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk\bin\vrad.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\cstrike" "C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta"

Valve Software - vrad.exe SSE (May 22 2006)
----- Radiosity Simulator ----
1 threads
[Reading texlights from 'lights.rad']
[1 texlights parsed from 'lights.rad']

Loading c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.bsp
No vis information, direct lighting only.
5123 faces
4 degenerate faces
1021354 square feet [147075024.00 square inches]
0 displacements
0 square feet [0.00 square inches]
3 direct lights
BuildFacelights: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (352)
Build Patch/Sample Hash Table(s).....Done<0.0963 sec>
FinalLightFace: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10 (2)
FinalLightFace Done
0 of 0 (0% of) surface lights went in leaf ambient cubes.
ComputePerLeafAmbientLighting: 0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9...10
Ready to Finish

Object names Objects/Maxobjs Memory / Maxmem Fullness
------------ --------------- --------------- --------
models 19/1024 912/49152 ( 1.9%)
brushes 417/8192 5004/98304 ( 5.1%)
brushsides 3658/65536 29264/524288 ( 5.6%)
planes 4690/65536 93800/1310720 ( 7.2%)
vertexes 8987/65536 107844/786432 (13.7%)
nodes 2323/65536 74336/2097152 ( 3.5%)
texinfos 332/12288 23904/884736 ( 2.7%)
texdata 74/2048 2368/65536 ( 3.6%)
dispinfos 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_verts 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_tris 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
disp_lmsamples 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
faces 5123/65536 286888/3670016 ( 7.8%)
hdr faces 0/65536 0/3670016 ( 0.0%)
origfaces 1707/65536 95592/3670016 ( 2.6%)
leaves 2343/65536 74976/2097152 ( 3.6%)
leaffaces 6284/65536 12568/131072 ( 9.6%)
leafbrushes 1074/65536 2148/131072 ( 1.6%)
areas 2/256 16/2048 ( 0.8%)
surfedges 30759/512000 123036/2048000 ( 6.0%)
edges 16764/256000 67056/1024000 ( 6.5%)
LDR worldlights 2/8192 176/720896 ( 0.0%)
HDR worldlights 0/8192 0/720896 ( 0.0%)
waterstrips 353/32768 3530/327680 ( 1.1%)
waterverts 0/65536 0/786432 ( 0.0%)
waterindices 5853/65536 11706/131072 ( 8.9%)
cubemapsamples 0/1024 0/16384 ( 0.0%)
overlays 0/512 0/180224 ( 0.0%)
LDR lightdata [variable] 2906036/0 ( 0.0%)
HDR lightdata [variable] 0/0 ( 0.0%)
visdata [variable] 0/16777216 ( 0.0%)
entdata [variable] 2324/393216 ( 0.6%)
LDR leaf ambient 2343/65536 56232/1572864 ( 3.6%)
HDR leaf ambient 0/65536 0/1572864 ( 0.0%)
occluders 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder polygons 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
occluder vert ind 0/0 0/0 ( 0.0%)
detail props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
static props [variable] 1/12 ( 8.3%)
pakfile [variable] 173709/0 ( 0.0%)

Level flags = 0

Win32 Specific Data:
physics [variable] 183896/4194304 ( 4.4%)
==== Total Win32 BSP file data space used: 4337323 bytes ====

Total triangle count: 13418
Writing c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.bsp
5 minutes, 55 seconds elapsed

** Executing...
** Command: Copy File
** Parameters: "C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\malaiseous\sourcesdk_content\cstrike\mapsrc\de_mice_beta.bsp" "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\cstrike\maps\de_mice_beta.bsp"


** Executing...
** Command: "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\hl2.exe"
** Parameters: -game "c:\program files\steam\steamapps\malaiseous\counter-strike source\cstrike" +map "de_mice_beta"

[Duck]

i see you gots a sorta big problem, i think i found it:

1276 portalclusters
4360 numportals
Leaf 311 (portal 1422) with too many portals. Use vbsp -glview to compile, then glview -portal -portalhighlight X or -leafhighlight L to view the problem.

this usually happens a lot, and thus makes the maps less visible, that is why you are lacking lighting.

you can resolve this issue by: making small primitives a func_detail **make sure they are inside the map, do not make a wall a func_detail that is surrounding the inside map conceptions, this will leak from your map, because you turn a primitive into an entity, which can leak throughout your map, so, like small things that you used (block tool, used primitive: block) make a func_detail if it is small.

I would also like to know if you added any water to your map or displacements.

and if you would like to upload your map, just add me to your steam friends list: afro_duck45 and i will give you information so you can upload your map to my ftp link site, or you can email it to me (only upload the .vmf file to me not .bsp). My email address is: [e-mail]

i hoped this helped, if you dont understand just let me take a look at your map and i will help =P

peace!
Duck

[Duck]

hey malaiseous you will need to submit your friend request again, my friends list was full, i deleted some peeps but oh well

thankx
Duck

[Malaiseous]

Thanks again, I really appreciate your efforts. I will exhaust my options and then failing that I will send it to you to peruse.

you can resolve this issue by: making small primitives a func_detail **make sure they are inside the map, do not make a wall a func_detail that is surrounding the inside map conceptions, this will leak from your map, because you turn a primitive into an entity, which can leak throughout your map, so, like small things that you used (block tool, used primitive: block) make a func_detail if it is small.

What exactly does the func_detail entity do?

I have not applied any water to the map but i'm not sure about displacements. I do plan on having a glass of water that players can fall into though.

[Duck]

nice map idea, but func_detail turns primitives into entities, thats about it, it resolves the vvis.exe compiling time, turns over the entity to the .vbsp prop compilation.

Displacements are used to make hills, blend textures, and other things to your primitives. It turns your primitive into a polygonal object. More info go here to this link: video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8673656544393808035

but i still need you to re-add me to your steam friends list...

peace!
Duck

[Malaiseous]

It aint letting me add you again just now. I'll try again later. I may just email you the map so far as the lighting is really starting to annoy me now. I have only applied one light environment but that should give off some light at least. My skybox was working fine before but has now gone on the blink too and the dvds have appeared but they are showing through other textures too. These problems are holding everything else up. I still have a lot of building to do.

Cheers.

M

[Duck]

ha, well i did recieve your friends request and got you added. I am almost always online

[Malaiseous]

Skybox is back for some strange reason.

I'll take it as far as I can and I'll leave lighting just now. My main question at the moment is how to get props to move. I.E. The dvd blocks I have created and how to stop the textures from one dvd showing through another. I have pretty much all of the giant furniture done. Moving onto smaller stuff now. Textures are still awful.

You got any new maps in development yourself?

[Blaze]

Lol duck ALWAYS is workin on new maps lolz. You don't have to keep being a guest, feel free to sign up for an account!

[Duck]

ha bro, just text me on steam or xfire, and hook me up with your map so i can take a look at it.

and yeah i got a new map idea

go here for details: www.firedraco21.proboards102.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=cssmapmakingmodding&thread=1173487538

[malaiseous]

Argh! I have made rotating doors but you can just walk right through them!

Also - I have cell doors and they rotate from the centre of the door rather than the side? I bet there is an easy way to fix this. I just can't see it.

Duck. I am going to email you the map so far, keep in mind its my first serious attempt.

[Duck]

ok, well i did recieve your map ^_^, and its a really good map, is this your first map? I like how you set everything up, however, i do not have the rats textures that you used for your dvd's and other logos.

but the prop_door_rotating entities have the "?" checked in the flags tab, if i am correct, you might want to deselect them, and select the "use opens" option.

now for func_door or func_door_rotating, (i suggest func_door better) there is a circleish icon in the center of the "door" what you would need to do is bring that circle icon to an edge of the door, just like the prop_door_rotating entities. Then make sure the "use opens" is checked only in the flags tab. that should work and I do like your map very very much ^-^

keep up the good work and also you might would like to become a member of our mapping team?

check out the website found on my castle_base_b2 topic, scroll down to my reply that I talked about the SDT website

thanks
Duck

[Duck]

erm, well that sdt link is to the sdt homepage, but the sdt forums are here: halomoddingsite.com/meteoraCSS/index.php

feel free to register =P